And remember the poor working conditions in the Soviet Union? Even with its vast resources, the state couldn't provide quality housing, health care, and food. It also doesn't help that Communism is rather anti-religion. Which isn't very good in the long run. There are lots of faults with "Communism" that you need recognize. But you're right to point out the faults of Capitalism.
I know about the mistakes communism made but you have ever heard the saying learning from your mistakes and there were religious states in communism,and the faults with capitalism is there would be no houses for some and racial discrimination makes it harder for minorities to get jobs to earn money while some inherit it or lucky to be the specific race. So capitalism only works if your a specific person or race is what i gathered but hey i could be wrong and look back in the 1930's through 60's.
Capitalism has learned from its mistakes also. Remember the regulations The United States was putting out against big businesses? I think, in the end, our opinions are just different. I like the idea of an individual working his way to the the top while you believe in a community working side by side for a common goal.
"Equality" even through there two classes the first being people chosen by the party and completely having better life and these who have not be chosen and have a shitty life in better terms the "Rice" and the "Poor" so were's your epuality now?
"Justice" even through the Ruling Party (The Communist Party) do what ever the fuck it wants without anyone saying a damn word about I.E sending people into labor camps where they either work to death or freeze to death
"Unity" They united people by killing those who do not agree with their ideals
"Labour" yes work people to death or work but didn't do anything because your known you get payed like 5 dollars a day just like everyone else so why bother
"Revolution" yes thank you for removing our freedoms for your 'Unity of the people' Dr. Dictator for most of which just used communism to gain power
this is from most communist nations that said these things but did the complete opposite
note this is not my I'm about to type
"With the passing of communism into history as an ideological alternative to democracy it is time to do some accounting of its human costs.
Few would deny any longer that communism--Marxism-Leninism and its variants--meant in practice bloody terrorism, deadly purges, lethal gulags and forced labor, fatal deportations, man-made famines, extrajudicial executions and show trials, and genocide. It is also widely known that as a result millions of innocent people have been murdered in cold blood. Yet there has been virtually no concentrated statistical work on what this total might be.
For about eight years I have been sifting through thousands of sources trying to determine the extent of democide (genocide and mass murder) in this century. As a result of that effort** I am able to give some conservative figures on what is an unrivaled communist hecatomb, and to compare this to overall world totals.
First, however, I should clarify the term democide. It means for governments what murder means for an individual under municipal law. It is the premeditated killing of a person in cold blood, or causing the death of a person through reckless and wanton disregard for their life. Thus, a government incarcerating people in a prison under such deadly conditions that they die in a few years is murder by the state--democide--as would parents letting a child die from malnutrition and exposure be murder. So would government forced labor that kills a person within months or a couple of years be murder. So would government created famines that then are ignored or knowingly aggravated by government action be murder of those who starve to death. And obviously, extrajudicial executions, death by torture, government massacres, and all genocidal killing be murder. However, judicial executions for crimes that internationally would be considered capital offenses, such as for murder or treason (as long as it is clear that these are not fabricated for the purpose of executing the accused, as in communist show trials), are not democide. Nor is democide the killing of enemy soldiers in combat or of armed rebels, nor of noncombatants as a result of military action against military targets.
With this understanding of democide, Table 1 lists all communist governments that have committed any form of democide and gives their estimated total domestic and foreign democide and its annual rate (the percent of a government's domestic population murdered per year). It also shows the total for communist guerrillas (including quasi-governments, as of the Mao soviets in China prior to the communist victory in 1949) and the world total for all governments and guerillas (including such quasi-governments as of the White Armies during the Russian civil war in 1917-1922). Figure 1 graphs the communist megamurderers and compares this to the communist and world totals.
Of course, eventhough systematically determined and calculated, all these figures and their graph are only rough approximations. Even were we to have total access to all communist archives we still would not be able to calculate precisely how many the communists murdered. Consider that even in spite of the archival statistics and detailed reports of survivors, the best experts still disagree by over 40 percent on the total number of Jews killed by the Nazis. We cannot expect near this accuracy for the victims of communism. We can, however, get a probable order of magnitude and a relative approximation of these deaths within a most likely range. And that is what the figures in Table 1 are meant to be. Their apparent precision is only due to the total for most communist governments being the summation of dozens of subtotals (as of forced labor deaths each year) and calculations (as in extrapolating scholarly estimates of executions or massacres).
With this understood, the Soviet Union appears the greatest megamurderer of all, apparently killing near 61,000,000 people. Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due to lethal forced labor in gulag and transit thereto. Communist China up to 1987, but mainly from 1949 through the cultural revolution, which alone may have seen over 1,000,000 murdered, is the second worst megamurderer. Then there are the lesser megamurderers, such as North Korea and Tito's Yugoslavia.
Obviously the population that is available to kill will make a big difference in the total democide, and thus the annual percentage rate of democide is revealing. By far, the most deadly of all communist countries and, indeed, in this century by far, has been Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. Pol Pot and his crew likely killed some 2,000,000 Cambodians from April 1975 through December 1978 out of a population of around 7,000,000. This is an annual rate of over 8 percent of the population murdered, or odds of an average Cambodian surviving Pol Pot's rule of slightly over just over 2 to 1.
In sum the communist probably have murdered something like 110,000,000, or near two-thirds of all those killed by all governments, quasi-governments, and guerrillas from 1900 to 1987. Of course, the world total itself it shocking. It is several times the 38,000,000 battle-dead that have been killed in all this century's international and domestic wars. Yet the probable number of murders by the Soviet Union alone--one communist country-- well surpasses this cost of war. And those murders of communist China almost equal it.
Figure 2 shows the major sources of death for those murdered under communism and compares this to world totals for each source for this century. A few of these sources require some clarification. Deaths through government terrorism means the killing of specific individuals by assassination, extrajudicial executions, torture, beatings, and such. Massacre, on the other hand, means the indiscriminate mass killing of people, as in soldiers machine gunning demonstrators, or entering a village and killing all of its inhabitants. As used here, genocide is the killing of people because of their ethnicity, race, religion, or language. And democide through deportation is the killing of people during their forced mass transportation to distant regions and their death as a direct result, such as through starvation or exposure. Democidal famine is that which is purposely caused or aggravated by government or which is knowingly ignored and aid to its victims is withheld.
As can be seen in the figure, communist forced labor was particularly deadly. It not only accounts for most deaths under communism, but is close to the world total, which also includes colonial forced labor deaths (as in German, Portuguese, and Spanish colonies). Communists also committed genocide, to be sure, but only near half of the world total. Communists are much less disposed to massacre then were many other noncommunist governments (such as the Japanese military during World War II, or the Nationalist Chinese government from 1928 to 1949). As can be seen from the comparative total for terrorism, communists were much more discriminating in their killing overall, even to the extent in the Soviet Union, communist China, and Vietnam, at least, of using a quota system. Top officials would order local officials to kill a certain number of "enemies of the people," "rightists", or "tyrants".
How can we understand all this killing by communists? It is the marriage of an absolutist ideology with the absolute power. Communists believed that they knew the truth, absolutely. They believed that they knew through Marxism what would bring about the greatest human welfare and happiness. And they believed that power, the dictatorship of the proletariat, must be used to tear down the old feudal or capitalist order and rebuild society and culture to realize this utopia. Nothing must stand in the way of its achievement. Government--the Communist Party--was thus above any law. All institutions, cultural norms, traditions, and sentiments were expendable. And the people were as though lumber and bricks, to be used in building the new world.
Constructing this utopia was seen as though a war on poverty, exploitation, imperialism, and inequality. And for the greater good, as in a real war, people are killed. And thus this war for the communist utopia had its necessary enemy casualties, the clergy, bourgeoisie, capitalists, wreckers, counterrevolutionaries, rightists, tyrants, rich, landlords, and noncombatants that unfortunately got caught in the battle. In a war millions may die, but the cause may be well justified, as in the defeat of Hitler and an utterly racist Nazism. And to many communists, the cause of a communist utopia was such as to justify all the deaths. The irony of this is that communism in practice, even after decades of total control, did not improve the lot of the average person, but usually made their living conditions worse than before the revolution. It is not by chance that the greatest famines have occurred within the Soviet Union (about 5,000,000 dead during 1921-23 and 7,000,000 from 1932-3) and communist China (about 27,000,000 dead from 1959-61). In total almost 55,000,000 people died in various communist famines and associated diseases, a little over 10,000,000 of them from democidal famine. This is as though the total population of Turkey, Iran, or Thailand had been completely wiped out. And that something like 35,000,000 people fled communist countries as refugees, as though the countries of Argentina or Columbia had been totally emptied of all their people, was an unparalleled vote against the utopian pretensions of Marxism-Leninism.
But communists could not be wrong. After all, their knowledge was scientific, based on historical materialism, an understanding of the dialectical process in nature and human society, and a materialist (and thus realistic) view of nature. Marx has shown empirically where society has been and why, and he and his interpreters proved that it was destined for a communist end. No one could prevent this, but only stand in the way and delay it at the cost of more human misery. Those who disagreed with this world view and even with some of the proper interpretations of Marx and Lenin were, without a scintilla of doubt, wrong. After all, did not Marx or Lenin or Stalin or Mao say that. . . . In other words, communism was like a fanatical religion. It had its revealed text and chief interpreters. It had its priests and their ritualistic prose with all the answers. It had a heaven, and the proper behavior to reach it. It had its appeal to faith. And it had its crusade against nonbelievers.
What made this secular religion so utterly lethal was its seizure of all the state's instrument of force and coercion and their immediate use to destroy or control all independent sources of power, such as the church, the professions, private businesses, schools, and, of course, the family. The result is what we see in Table 1.
But communism does not stand alone in such mass murder. We do have the example of Nazi Germany, which may have itself murdered some 20,000,000 Jews, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Yugoslaves, Frenchmen, and other nationalities. Then there is the Nationalist government of China under Chiang Kai-shek, which murdered near 10,000,000 Chinese from 1928 to 1949, and the Japanese militarists who murdered almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Indochinese, Koreans, Filipinos, and others during world War II. And then we have the 1,000,000 or more Bengalis and Hindus killed in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) in 1971 by the Pakistan military. Nor should we forget the mass expulsion of ethnic Germans and German citizens from Eastern Europe at the end of World War II, particularly by the Polish government as it seized the German Eastern Territories, killing perhaps over 1,000,000 of them. Nor should we ignore the 1,000,000 plus deaths in Mexico from 1900 to 1920, many of these poor Indians and peasants being killed by forced labor on barbaric haciendas. And one could go on and on to detail various kinds of noncommunist democide.
But what connects them all is this. As a government's power is more unrestrained, as its power reaches into all the corners of culture and society, and as it is less democratic, then the more likely it is to kill its own citizens. There is more than a correlation here. As totalitarian power increases, democide multiplies until it curves sharply upward when totalitarianism is near absolute. As a governing elite has the power to do whatever it wants, whether to satisfy its most personal desires, to pursue what it believes is right and true, it may do so whatever the cost in lives. In this case power is the necessary condition for mass murder. Once an elite have it, other causes and conditions can operated to bring about the immediate genocide, terrorism, massacres, or whatever killing an elite feels is warranted.
Finally, at the extreme of totalitarian power we have the greatest extreme of democide. Communist governments have almost without exception wielded the most absolute power and their greatest killing (such as during Stalin's reign or the height of Mao's power) has taken place when they have been in their own history most totalitarian. As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization and a loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the pace of killing dropped off sharply.
Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked. But there is a larger lesson to be learned from this horrendous sacrifice to one ideology. That is that no one can be trusted with power. The more power the center has to impose the beliefs of an ideological or religious elite or impose the whims of a dictator, the more likely human lives are to be sacrificed. This is but one reason, but perhaps the most important one, for fostering liberal democracy. " - R.J. Rummel 'HOW MANY DID COMMUNIST REGIMES MURDER?'
I'm sorry but people used communism for power pure and simple
Just because you’re a member of a party doesn’t mean much, most socialist states are not single-party anyway
No communist party has to follow the rules same as everyone else. And of course no capitalist states has ever made people work to death And of course communists have been killed for their believes. Take a look your shoes or clothing they were mosty made by people living off less than 5 dollars a day.
"Revolution" yes thank you for removing our freedoms for your 'Unity of the people' Dr. Dictator for most of which just used communism to gain power
What freedoms do you have? You live under a dictatorship of the workplace and if you go against the government you get spied on, remember how many anti war groups were being spied on during the Iraq war. See as I don’t have the time to pull this whole piece apart I’m just going to use the numbers I know of how many capitalism has killed Capitalism: Known True Evil 1.6 Billion Murdered
Post-Soviet Capitalism 15,000,000 Somali Child Famine Deaths 29,000 NATO Intervention in Libya 15,000 Second Boer War 75,000 Japanese Massacre of Singapore 100,000 Burma-Siam Railroad Construction 116,000 Japanese Germ Warfare in China 200,000 Rebelling Shia Killed by Saddam 300,000 US Bombing of Yugoslavia 300,000 US Bombing Iraq Water Supply '91 500,000 US Civil War 700,000 Iraq-Iran War 1,000,000 US sanctions on Iraq 1,000,000 US Backed Suharto 1,200,000 Irish Potato Famine 1,500,000 Japanese Democides 5,964,000 Famine of 1932-33 7,000,000 Bengal Famine of 1943 10,000,000 Famine in British India 30,000,000 US Intervention in the Congo 5,000,000 Hurricane Katrina 1,836 Indonesian Anti-Com. Purge 1,000,000 Stateless Capitalist Somalia 1,000,000 Industrial Revolution USA 100,000 1898 US War vs Philippine 3,000,000 Palestinians Killed by Israel 826,626 Guatemala 300,000 Nanking Massacre 300,000 Iraq (Selling Gas to Saddam) 400,000 Iraq (Desert Storm) 500,000 Invasion of the Philippines 650,000 Feudal Russia 1,066,000 Afghanistan 1,200,000 Iraq 1,300,000 Khmer Rouge 2,035,000 South African Apartheid 3,500,000 Nazi Holocaust 12,000,000 US Aggression on Latin America 6,000,000 Japanese Imperialism 6,000,000 Vietnam War - including Cambodia & Laos 10,000,000 Korean War 10,000,000 British Occupation of India 20,000,000 Great Depression (America alone) 12,000,000 World War One 16,500,000 World War Two 60,000,000 Native American Genocide 95,000,000 Capitalist Policy in India 1947 - 1990 120,000,000 African Slave Trade 150,000,000 US Backed murder of Tamils 30,000 Spanish-American War 100,000 Spanish Civil War 400,000 Union Carbide Bophal Disaster 15,000 Massacre of Paris Commune 20,000 First Indochina 1946-1954 1,500,000 Belgian Congo Colonization 1,000,000 French Madagascar 80,000 Nigerian Civil War 1,000,000 Rwandan Genocide 1,000,000 US Made Famine Bangladesh 100,000 Children Died fr Hunger '09 5,256,000 Children Killed by Hunger Since 9/11 235,000,000 Children Killed by Hunger during the 1990s 100,000,000
I should also point out that Marxism-Leninism doesn’t have a utopian pretension, the whole point of Marxism was to move away from the old utopian ideas of Socialism and be more scientific and also social engineering isn’t unusual, every society in history undergoes some form of social engineering. And of course communism is about power, the main point of it is to remove power from the few and give it to the many.
The first one. uh yeah right most Communist no all Communist states are a one party state nothing else The second one. Houseshit they kill any both citizen and Political so what's the point The third one. yes we did things that piss people off not so much so as the Communist states did The fourth one. yes they did like at Soviet Russia who killed people for their Ideals and Religion The fifth one. China is not a Communist Nation in the Economic terms more Capitalist so what's the point about
The sixth one. no I do not live in a dictatorship you fucking idiot I have the freedom to say what ever the fuck I want without the Government coming in to kill me and at less I can say that we do not support the War in Iraq (Former) and the War in Afghanistan that's why we have the freedom to do so in other nations we would have been killed for our ideals and what we say like in some communist states The seventh one. about that most of which are not capitalistic in nature and What The Fuck Dude! Really saying the U.S made the Famine in Bangladesh is as crazy as saying the Government did 9/11 here's the facts you idiot Warnings of famine began in March, 1974 when the price of rice rose sharply. In this month “widespread starvation started in Rangpur district”, the region which would become one of three most afflicted. It had only been two years and three months since the end of the war for Bangladeshi independece (December 1971) and the country's formal creation. In many ways, Bangladesh's new state and devastated infrastructure and markets were wholly unprepared to deal with the situation. Corruption among the newly appointed officials was rampant and widespread. In April, though government officials reiterated that the crisis would be temporary, rice prices continued to rise sharply and reports of starvation became more widespread. From April to July, Bangladesh was hit by heavy rainfall and a series of devastating floods along the Brahmaputra river, with notably destructive incidents in May, July In addition, neighboring India declined to cooperate with the government of Bangladesh. Rice crops were devastated and prices rocketed. In October rice prices peaked and conditions eased by November 1974 as foreign aid and the winter crop arrived. The famine was officially over by December, though 'excess' mortality (e.g. by disease) continued well into the following year, as is the case with most famines. More people suffered in the rural areas due to starvation. Generally, regional famine intensity was correlated to flood exposure and no doubt the floods exacerbated the famine. However, though warnings of famine began long before the flood (as demonstrated above), it is to the floods which the famine is popularly blamed.
The eighth one. uh yeah it still have the power of the few not the people E.I The Communist Party
You can look it up, most socialist states don’t have only one party. If the communist party killed anyone it disagree with, it would have wiped it’s self out in a week. And yet I just pointed out that capitalism has kill far far more than any so called communist state. I’ll remind the Soviet Union was attacked from the first day of it’s existence, because of it’s ideas, it couldn’t let itself be pull apart, yes the Cheka and NKVD when too far many times but it didn’t people in jail for no reason. And don’t call the Soviet Union, Soviet Russia, It’s Soviet Union or USSR, Russia was only one federal republic of the union. The fifth point I made is that capitalist states mostly pay people lest then what they can live on.
As I pointed out, you have a dictatorship of the workplace, rather than a government dictatorship (Although the US government has become very dictatorial in it’s governing in in the last few years.) you have no say in how your place of work is run and no say in how your labour is used. Your government can’t kill you, but it can lock you up indefinitely without trial or have we forgotten Guantanamo Bay? The rest I’m too tried to hack at, need sleep. By the way if us communists hate freedom so much way didn’t I just block you?
just look at Poland and other socialist states accept for the ones who are run by a communist party system
"And yet I just pointed out that capitalism has kill far far more than any so called communist state"
if you count out the number of dead that were killed in a communist system then you would see that there are FAR FAR FAR more killed in that system.
YES, the soviet union was attacked first. But look at the soviet invasion of Poland. And look at the soviet invasion during the winter war, which was when the soviet union invaded Finland. Also look at the Soviet invasion of the Baltic States. So why? That was probably the one of the few times that the USSR was invaded - so in better terms the Soviets fought in MORE wars that THEY started in the First place.
Actually they did - they arrested anyone who talked bad about the communist party, anyone who talked bad about the government in general, and anyone who talked bad about the leaders -
LOL Russia ruled the USSR - it was just ONE country ruling over ALL of them. So it's not even ruled...it's more like an empire, with Russia a the Supreme Overlord...
Well that's the sad truth, but at least i get paid a tad bit more than if i lived in soviet style america - for instance 10 cents a day
Eh Gahds,the US labor force has a multitude of labor laws and "self" enforced protections & many practical labor laws & ethical guidlines to WATCH over our employers...(I.E. - OSHA, child labor laws, Waga an HOUR Board, etc...
CHRIST man are ya serious - GITMO - that's for War Criminals & Political prisoners (exiled, enslaved,and your local terrorist types) ...Yikes man not any of OUR own Political prisoners...
nighty night Pal
that's because you are a cool dude... not a typical communist whom are mostly authoritariantic in nature
The number of people killed by 'communist states' is 100 million, or 120 million or 80 million or 60 million what ever number it is this week. capitalism in it's history has killed 1.6 Billion people, 100 million of those happen in the last 30 to 40 years.
The Soviet Union only attacked poland to try and get to germany to support their revolution, the Baltic states only became part of the Soviet Union after world war 2 because they had sided with Germany and while it was wrong for the Soviets to attack Finland, it was even worse that Finland sided with Germany and helped them in the Siege of Leningrad which became one of thelongest and most destructive sieges in history
Just because Russia was the largest of the Soviet Republics, didn't make it a Supreme Overlord, it didn't have it's own Congress of Soviets or Council of Ministers, all the other republics did.
Actually, one of the frist things the Soviet State did was rase the wage and cut the number of hours they had to work.
You have labour laws, but that doesn't make it any less of a dictatorship of the workplace and from what I've seen many in the US government (namely Tea Party Republicans) want to repeal those laws.
I should point out that only 12 of the people sent to Guantanamo Bay were found to be connected to terrorist groups.
I've been called many things but never cool, but I've known many communists on the internets and only a few block, even MaoistRebelNews whose been trolled way worse then I have and he doesn't block people.
you know what never just never mind (I hate this so yeah and I didn't want to piss you off anymore since you and I are working on that project of ours) and oh have you finished that flag yet? and can you make it 2000Px? You know as big as this [link]